I confess I don't understand Joe Lieberman. I've been reading about this all morning, and it just doesn't make any sense to me. Links to people who seem to understand him would be appreciated (I've been to HuffPo, Politico, 538, TPM, Wonkette for the weltschmerz lulz and Open Left) All I know is the 55 yr old buy-in was my last hope at decent affordable health care in a reasonable time frame. Joe Lieberman has just basically condemned me personally to another 11 years of working just to pay the insurance bill.

New term for snafus: lieberman. Works as a noun and a verb.

Howard Dean: “This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill.”

It sucks, no question, but I'd rather have something than nothing and it's not like the bill is complete crap. It does help the uninsured and aims to get rid of pre-existing conditions loophole.

It's not what I want, but frankly, a large part of Congress doesn't seem to want true reform, for whatever reason. If you're starving, a quarter loaf of bread is better than none, even if you want the whole loaf. This is what we got, let put it in place and move on to other topics, hopefully coming back for health care tweaks

This doesn't help you personally nax and that totally sucks. As to Lieberman, the best explanation I've heard about him is that he just isn't very smart. There's no evil plan, no particular brilliance, he just isn't smart

He's betrayed his own party time and again and is currently the most powerful vote in the room because he's positioned himself as the swing vote. That's smart. Incredibly risky, and it could blow up in his face at any moment. Working so far though.

My major hesitation in supporting the sort of ok bill which will replace the one I was willing to settle for (which is still not the one I really want) is that I'm concerned a lot of the real changes that matter and are in still in there aren't going to be all that enforceable in practice. It's hard for me to tell though, the opinions vary so much on the quality of what's there currently.

I'm concerned a lot of the real changes that matter and are in still in there aren't going to be all that enforceable in practice.

Yeah, I've heard a bit of talk about the chance for the actual programs to be set up can still be thwarted and messed with in various ways to diminish their impact. Fun times.

My own take on Lieberman is that previously he was explaining the position he was going to support in his national role as vice president, when he was concerned about what was best for the nation as a whole. His current opposition is rooted in what's best for Connecticut, where most insurance companies are based. You can (and should) be outraged, but from Lieberman's perspective he's just doing his job as a Connecticut Senator representing his constituents' interests. He doesn't belong to either party anymore, so he's not beholden to toeing any party line.

Personally, I'm starting to think this bill is dead. There's bound to be a Democrat whose vote is needed that just can't stomach the bill as is. It's not a crap bill. It would get insurance to a lot of people that wouldn't ordinarily have it, make it a lot harder to deny coverage, and save money for the country overall (imho) simply by having more people insured. However, it's got real problems, the biggest being that it forces people to pay for health care that can't. How do you pay $5,000 a year premiums (this is when you're not sick) if you make $30,000 year? It's hard to accept the skateboard after just being told you were receiving a new car.

The good news here is that I think Lieberman is finished. His timing was awful, and I don't think either party will have anything to do with him. The bad news is I think Democrats are done too, as well as healthcare reform, which may even be worse if you believe (as I do) that this will be the only shot at healthcare reform we will have in our lifetimes.

Some version of health care reform will pass. Obama's staked a large part of candidacy on it and there's no way he's not going to get something passed, even if it's a guarantee that every American will be granted a box of kleenex for the sorry state of health care in America. He badly needs to be go into the State of the Union address saying "Health care reform? Yeah, we did that."

The Republicans would gladly take Leiberman back, if for no other reason that it would deny the Democrats the 60 votes needed for cloture. But I doubt he really wants to be part of the minority party, his status as an Independent puts him in a comfortable seat and allows him to swing between parties as he sees fit on an issue by issue basis.

xammerboy, try $16,799 per year (premiums plus $5K deductible) on a $28,000 salary, which is my situation, and my employer actually offers healthcare (i.e. makes it available, but we have to pay for it, full cost). My entire salary goes to taxes and healthcare. If my husband loses his job, we have to choose betw healthcare and the mortgage. My daughter's already been screwed out of college because of this.

Anybody have any spare tea bags? I'd like to stuff them down Ben Nelson's and Joe Lieberman's throats.

Damn.... I had a feeling those numbers were off, but I just couldn't believe they would be higher.

It's insane that this "reform" will not make healthcare more affordable. As a result, there will less small businesses and self employed. This is exactly the opposite of what we need. As it is, I can't tell you how many friends I have that have considered starting their own businesses and then gave up when they realized how much healthcare was going to cost them. We're going to create a generation of indentured servants.